I just took delivery of a G4B, serial 6816. Overall it is in very clean shape, but I have a couple of issues. The motor it came with was a replacement by a previous owner, a 1/2 horse sleeve bearing Emerson, cool but not right. I'm thinking of putting a 3450 rpm 56 frame motor on it. The arbor would be turning at about 6,500 rpm with a 4.5" pulley on the motor. That would put the rim speed at about 12,400 rpm for a 7.25" blade. A 16" blade on a direct drive saw is running around 15,000 rpm at the rim. Is this too fast for one of these saws?
The more annoying issue I have is with the sliding table bearing cage. It makes the most awful fingernails on a chalkboard screech when drawn back or forth. I took the table off and cleaned it thoroughly, but it was really not that dirty in there. I tried some felt washers but it did very little to eliminate the sound, it just made things a little harder to slide. I put the balls in without the cage just see how it felt and it was perfect.
My question is what can be done to get rid of the sound? I have a similar bearing set up on the slider of my Oliver 260, but the balls are captured in spot welded assemblies. Is there some easy fix for this or should I be making up a captured ball assembly. The sound is more than I can bare.
Will
G4B A few questions
Moderator: crzypete
Hey Will,
Welcome to the forum. Congrats on the glider, I'm sure you will love it.
The next model of the saw - the G100 went to a captive ball system. But the g4b Should be quieter than you are describing.
The felt washers that I have previously talked about on the forum maybe poorly described by me, but I think they hold the solution. Rather than calling them felt, perhaps they should be called fiber, and there should be only two total- one on outside of the center ball of each side.
I would also double check on the straightness of the cage. Often if the rubber bumpers get destroyed, the cage gets bent and starts rubbing it irritating ways.
Lastly, it is important that the table has been bumped to the ends of its travels to keep the balls aligned and make sure everything is happy. IIRC this may be most important on the G100, but is still pertinent on the G4B's.
Definitely keep us posted.
Pete
Welcome to the forum. Congrats on the glider, I'm sure you will love it.
The next model of the saw - the G100 went to a captive ball system. But the g4b Should be quieter than you are describing.
The felt washers that I have previously talked about on the forum maybe poorly described by me, but I think they hold the solution. Rather than calling them felt, perhaps they should be called fiber, and there should be only two total- one on outside of the center ball of each side.
I would also double check on the straightness of the cage. Often if the rubber bumpers get destroyed, the cage gets bent and starts rubbing it irritating ways.
Lastly, it is important that the table has been bumped to the ends of its travels to keep the balls aligned and make sure everything is happy. IIRC this may be most important on the G100, but is still pertinent on the G4B's.
Definitely keep us posted.
Pete
Thanks Pete. Do you happen to know how thick the washers should be, and what size hole? I may just order a few different one's from McMaster and see if I can take care of it by trial and error. The cage is in great shape, very slightly bent which was correctable by hand. The rubber bumpers look like they are almost new, so I'm hoping the washers take care of it. I'll keep you posted.
Any thoughts on speeding up the blade? I've got a 3450 rpm motor and a vfd on the way.
Will
Any thoughts on speeding up the blade? I've got a 3450 rpm motor and a vfd on the way.
Will
Not too much first hand experience with speeding up the blade, but my instinct says it would be a good thing. With a vfd, you can really experiment to figure out an optimal speed, so I would not be overly worried about getting the pulley exactly right the first time.
I would suspect that the saw will be pretty forgiving at any speed with a fresh sharp blade, but the tale will really be told when it begins to get a bit dull and is more prone to burning.
Pete
I would suspect that the saw will be pretty forgiving at any speed with a fresh sharp blade, but the tale will really be told when it begins to get a bit dull and is more prone to burning.
Pete
Well, my local hardware store had fiber washers, and after trimming to the right thickness I reinstalled the slider. It did nothing to solve the noise issue.
I think I have a better handle on what the problem is though. With the fiber washers in place the cage does not contact the steel ways anymore, and still it's noisy. I measured the holes in the bearing cage and they are not quite the same, they are egged out: .530 top to bottom and about .520 side to side. I think the sound is coming from the balls rolling on the cage. It seems like the holes should be a lot closer to the balls, which are .5 exactly. Does anyone know if that is the case? What size should the holes be?
As an alternative, would the captive ball assemblies from a G100 fit a G4B, presuming I could locate a pair? If I went the route of making some kind of ball retainer, or modifying the one I have what material would I use? Steel again, phenolic, brass?
Will
I think I have a better handle on what the problem is though. With the fiber washers in place the cage does not contact the steel ways anymore, and still it's noisy. I measured the holes in the bearing cage and they are not quite the same, they are egged out: .530 top to bottom and about .520 side to side. I think the sound is coming from the balls rolling on the cage. It seems like the holes should be a lot closer to the balls, which are .5 exactly. Does anyone know if that is the case? What size should the holes be?
As an alternative, would the captive ball assemblies from a G100 fit a G4B, presuming I could locate a pair? If I went the route of making some kind of ball retainer, or modifying the one I have what material would I use? Steel again, phenolic, brass?
Will
Interesting diagnosis. I am not sure of the correct size, perhaps someone else can check their saw.
I am pretty sure that the G4b and G100 use different size bearings in the table ways, so that is not an option.
Have you thoroughly cleaned the ways? I am partial to denatured alcohol, but will use something stronger depending on its success.
I would think building bearing retainers would be an ambitious project, the G100 uses ones that are formed thick sheet metal that are then spot welded together. Not sure this is easier, be better to make the existing system better.
Perhaps, if the ways have been cleaned, it is time to try some light oil. I would apply then wipe clean.
Fixing the current system would seem to be the easiest repair, my debate would be whether to close the old holes up a bit with a little weld, or to either replicate the whole unit. You could also just make new ball holding wings and tack those on. But I would try to exhaust other options first as these are all quite a bit of work.
Pete
I am pretty sure that the G4b and G100 use different size bearings in the table ways, so that is not an option.
Have you thoroughly cleaned the ways? I am partial to denatured alcohol, but will use something stronger depending on its success.
I would think building bearing retainers would be an ambitious project, the G100 uses ones that are formed thick sheet metal that are then spot welded together. Not sure this is easier, be better to make the existing system better.
Perhaps, if the ways have been cleaned, it is time to try some light oil. I would apply then wipe clean.
Fixing the current system would seem to be the easiest repair, my debate would be whether to close the old holes up a bit with a little weld, or to either replicate the whole unit. You could also just make new ball holding wings and tack those on. But I would try to exhaust other options first as these are all quite a bit of work.
Pete
I have thoroughly cleaned he ways, and I wiped them with some Mobil DTE that I had on hand. I was surprised that it was noisy given that they were not that dirty to begin with. The idea of making ball retainers is not one I'm too excited about, especially were I to go after the style used in the G100.
What I thought might work would be to replicate the wings with tighter holes, maybe .503 or so, in a strip of material slightly less than the thickness of the gap between the steel ways which is .175. These would essentially be a 3/4" strip with ten holes. I think I could mock this idea up and try them in the ways with out connecting them. I actually think this might be better. If they work un-connected I might come up with a way to use them that way. The way the 260 keeps its ball retainers in is pretty simple. There are two studs pressed into the ends of the steel way on the slider that are just tall enough to prevent the retainers from coming out. That would be pretty easy to do to the sliding table of the Glider. The more difficult thing to work out would be a stop for the extremes of the table travel.
I'm in no rush to do this. I think I need more info on what the specs on the retainer should be.
Will
What I thought might work would be to replicate the wings with tighter holes, maybe .503 or so, in a strip of material slightly less than the thickness of the gap between the steel ways which is .175. These would essentially be a 3/4" strip with ten holes. I think I could mock this idea up and try them in the ways with out connecting them. I actually think this might be better. If they work un-connected I might come up with a way to use them that way. The way the 260 keeps its ball retainers in is pretty simple. There are two studs pressed into the ends of the steel way on the slider that are just tall enough to prevent the retainers from coming out. That would be pretty easy to do to the sliding table of the Glider. The more difficult thing to work out would be a stop for the extremes of the table travel.
I'm in no rush to do this. I think I need more info on what the specs on the retainer should be.
Will
Will, I am back in the studio and was able to measure the holes in the carrier of a G4b that I have here. It is mostly silent and the hole that I measured was .525 in both height and width.
I also checked and found that I was previously mistaken in that the G100 and G4b both do use the same size bearings .500
I am going to put forth another idea, I am curious if your use of way oil is actually making the balls skid rather than roll. They are actually intended to be used dry and perhaps the oil is doing more harm than good.
Any progress on your end?
Peter
I also checked and found that I was previously mistaken in that the G100 and G4b both do use the same size bearings .500
I am going to put forth another idea, I am curious if your use of way oil is actually making the balls skid rather than roll. They are actually intended to be used dry and perhaps the oil is doing more harm than good.
Any progress on your end?
Peter
Thanks for checking your G4B's retainer Pete. I have not made much progress to speak of, I've had to put it aside and work on a few other things. The oil I used was very sparing. I dampened a rag and wiped the ways, followed by a clean rag. There was barely any oil on them.
I did try hosing the ways down with a lot more oil just to see what it might do, and that dampened the sound down maybe 50%, so I don't know what that means. I'm inclined to use it dry as intended though.
What are the chances I might find a set of G100 ball assemblies? Slim probably. I think I'll try making something, but it won't be for a bit.
Will
I did try hosing the ways down with a lot more oil just to see what it might do, and that dampened the sound down maybe 50%, so I don't know what that means. I'm inclined to use it dry as intended though.
What are the chances I might find a set of G100 ball assemblies? Slim probably. I think I'll try making something, but it won't be for a bit.
Will