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Tannewitz Model U Table Saw Rebuild
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Tannewitz Model U Table Saw Rebuild Reply with quote

Well here it goes, The start of some more insanity. The details of my purchase are here http://machinejunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=685

Now it is time to follow in the footsteps of stephen http://machinejunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=476

This thread is going to cover a full rebuild of my saw, Step one is the bearings. as a refresher, here is my saw.


There has been a lot of build-up to the bearings, Stephen's epic adventure in particular. In the end, I have to say I feel like the knights from the Monty Python when they discover that the foul beast is "just a rabbit" but not after they find it is a killer rabbit.

Yesterday, I ordered a 7/8" 8 point socket to fit the end of the motor arbor. I really wanted to be able to use my impact wrench and the square head necessitated the special order. After filing a burr off, it fit like a champ.


Step one was removing the stub arbor, and unfortunately, despite my new fancy impact socket, my wimpy impact wrench was not up to the task- I need to add a good one to my shopping list. After some heat and PB blaster I was not getting anywhere. I was already dreading the Stephen syndrome. What ended up being the ticket was a open end wrench on the square arbor with a 30" pipe extension. The arbor was locked in by a wrench bearing against the table of the saw. This was all probably aided by a couple of heat/ cool cycles. And of course the reminder to future arbor removers- it is definitely left hand thread.


Next up was Stephen's nemesis, that damn bearing retainer. I had a couple of ideas on how to grip it and settled on a weird spanner wrench that I had in my drawer. It is a cheap imported tool and I was certainly worried about it rising up the occasion of this task. I set it in place and put my impact wrench on the other side.


It came right off. I actually couldn't believe it- figured I had stripped the wrench or something. Damn Rabbit. This is also left handed thread.


After removing some covers, I came upon the fan for the motor.


I ended up pulling the fan with a gear puller. It required two pulls as i encountered a burr on the shaft, tapped it back on, filed the burr, then remounted the puller and yoinked!


The big 1 3/4" nut was a bit stubborn. It is located in such a spot that you need an off-set wrench to really access it. I didn't have the right wrench, and didn't feel like fabbing one. I ended up pulling the back half of the motor out so I did not have to work on it while under the saw.


I was able to get the funny split nut out by gripping it with channel locks and using the impact driver on the original square shaft end. This is a regular right handed thread, but since I was driving the shaft, I used the impact gun in forward to remove it.

Everything came apart really easily, this picture shows the two bearings, Stephen's evil nut, and the 8 Pt socket. The rear bearing is a 6207 and the front a 6209. I'll most likely order them up tomorrow, but am not in a huge rush as I have some cleaning and painting to do. This whole episode including a visit from a salesperson and a phone call took 2 hours. Sorry Stephen!
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swparish



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Ft. Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I sorry there wasnít any drama. Thereís nothing like surveying an insurmountable mountain, developing a foolproof plan, then careening headlong into the abyss while everyone on the sidelines laughs hysterically.

I look forward to the rebuild. Maybe itíll inspire me to clean up mineÖ or maybe not.
Iíd love a real door, but I donít have the original wrench. I got one like yours at Northern Tool. Iíve never really liked it because itís just too big for the job, and Iím always afraid Iím going to whack a tooth on my blade and chip it. I have a Rockwell 14ĒRAS and it happens to have the same 1 5/8Ē arbor nut. It came with a cheap little box end wrench stamped out of thick sheet metal and it works great. Plus itís about half the length.

When you get further into the rebuild, will you take some pics and explain how the raising lock works. I understand the tilting lock actually jams against the hand crank shaft, but I never could figure out how the raising one works.

The one thing I wish I had done differently on my biesmeyer, is made the T section that locks onto the square tube longer to give it more support. I just made the same length as one that fits a standard 10Ē. But because the fence is longer to go the depth of the Tanny I think thereís more leverage on it.

As far as the pointer, I just made like the original. I had a piece of clear plastic and pur a scratch down the middle then rubbed in some red paint. I donít know if you can tell but the locking bar is canted off to one side. It was hard holding the two pieces together with one had and operating the wire welder with the other, but it works.


My pics are getting smaller, I'll try to figure it out.

Keep us posted.
Stephen
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was able to work on the saw a bit this evening, I scraped a lot of the paint off and began the process of removing the top. As it sits, I have the top lifted from the base with four wedges, but am unsure of how I wish to grab it with the forklift.




Steve, I think you mentioned once the possibility of alignment issues with your top to your blade. I am thinking my saw may have some issues as well. The biesemeyer fence was shimmed and some of the bolts that hold the top are necked down as if they were trying to rotate the top- also missing a taper pin. I am curious if you found the root of your problem?

My gut is to clean it all up and put it back together before worrying too much. Often these types of things get out of alignment due to dirt more than anything else.

The raising lock, as far as I can tell, does nothing. I'll report if I discover anything different.

I ordered bearings today. After seriously considering ABEC 5 high precision bearings, I got the good sense to simply use a high grade motor bearing- fully sealed.

Another interesting note about the biesemeyer- their extra long fence is no wider at the base bar than their regular fence. I have had problems with the biesemeyer deflecting on my unisaw- one time I actually had to clamp a five foot long board against it to prevent some dado's that I was cutting from getting over-sized- the blade was buried into a sacrificial fence. It worked as a solution, but they certainly are not super rigid, definitely would need some support to use a powerfeed.

Pete
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swparish



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Ft. Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I think I figured out my pic problem. Hereís one of the lock down on the fence and the pointer for the ruler. Maybe you can see it better now.


Hereís a shot of the miter gauge.


I think Iíll put some paint in the engravings, because the last time I used it I realized I couldnít see them. I donít remember this being a problem before, so Iím thinking that old age is setting in. Next thing you know Iíll be buying bifocal safety glasses and griping about loud music.

Yes Pete, my miter slots are not perfectly aligned with the blade and it bugs me. I donít remember how much since itís been a while since I checked. I donít think itís a lot but enough to make cuts burn when taking deep cuts with the miter gauge. Since the table is pinned. I necked the trunion bolts to try to get some adjustment. I got a little but not enough. Thatís mainly why I wanted a manual; to see if there was some adjustment I was missing. If you figure it out let me know.

Also, what do you mean the biesemeyer was shimmed. There should be a set screw at each end of the T to adjust it parallel to the blade.

Good luck.
Stephen
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen, the biesemeyer was shimmed between the table top and the main rail. I have two thoughts- one the alignment was so bad that they needed the shim, or two, they not so smart! and couldn't figure out those two set screws.

Not too much progress happening and things are only going to get slower, real work sucks when you have a new machine in the shop.

Yesterday I clamped the table to the forks of the crown and lifted it clear.


a blurry photo of what is left inside the cabinet. Needless to say, once I get to this point, this restoration is going all the way.


Next step is flipping the top upside-down. This thing is way heavy and it was a bit scary even with the crown-lift. I left the extension table on because the alignment with the top is so seamless I am unwilling to take them apart and risk even the slightest misalignment later on, it did make it way heavier and even less balanced.


Down on a pallet, the red is all primer. This should be an easy clean and paint- way cleaner than most machines I have worked on. The whole saw has only one coat of paint over the factory dark gray, This should go nicely.



Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got back at it for a couple of hours this afternoon.

Firstly, I have to report my first broken piece- the tilt stop for 90ļ


It should be an easy fab, especially if someone can confirm that it is the same as the 45ļ stop- pictured here


I used the crown to pick out the guts. This is one heavy trunnion. The blade raises and lowers on dovetail ways.


Here it is removed. it ran pretty damn smoothly before I dissembled the saw. Should be heavenly when it goes back together.


Deep inside the saw at the heart of the raising mechanism- a thrust bearing, it is still well greased and operational- this is definitely one reason the saw goes up and down so easily. There are two more in the tilt mechanism as well.


The empty base....


and lastly, the cleaned up raising screw.


I am curious if anyone's handwheels have free-spinning handles- mine look like they once were, but now are frozen solid. I was also not able to press them out- they look like they are peened over. I am considering drilling them out an replacing with new ones- they are slightly pitted as well.

Pete
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swparish



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Ft. Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Pete,
Things are looking good. Youíre going much further than I did in my rebuild. My stop looks exactly the same. And yes, I think it is the same as the 45. I couldn't find mine (I just took it out) but I think I remembered someone tried to braze it and it didn't work. You've got so much leverage with the tilting screw I think people just kept cranking until they heard a pop. I never saw it as a loss because my theory is that you can set it so everything itís perfect, but after a little dust gets packed onto it, it aint perfect no more. Thatís why I love my Tilt Box so much. No more squinting to making sure thereís no light between the blade and the square. Just set it on the table, zero it out, then stick it to the blade. The other application that I really love about the Tilt Box and this saw is when Iím setting the blade to some angle. Since the throat is so big on the side the blade tilts away from, you have to put the measuring device between the table and the blade. Things get kinda cramped there and makes it hard to know for sure.

One thing to be careful of when you get it running is that you can raise the blade higher when it's tilted than when it's 90. So if you have the blade raised and tilted then you go to bring it back to 90 you'll force the motor against the underside of the table and it wont go. So lower the blade before you come back to 90. I still make that mistake, luckily it doesn't take me as long now to figure out what the problem is.

I had the same thought about the hand wheel handles. Mine are frozen too. Definitely want some dust on the hands before you go to really spin those things.

One other thing about the miter gauges. Mine came with these threaded pins with knurled thumb nuts on the top and an L shape on the bottom so they go like this. My guess is so you can change out a sacrificial board, but I always just use screws from the back.

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swparish



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Ft. Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I finally read the manual you gave me the link to. It address the table not being aligned to the blade issue, hereís what it says:

ďIf, upon setting up the machine, it is found that the saw blades protruding through the slot in the table do not line up accurately with the table, then it is quite evident that a warp is in the frame, and this condition will have to be corrected by driving a wedge under one corner on the opposite corner, until the saw comes in perfect alignment with the table slot.Ē

I think that pretty much takes care of that problem quite evidently.

It also tells what those pins on the miter gauges are for:

ďThe graduated miter gauges are prepared to receive square stop rods that are furnished. These stop rods are in two lengths, one for long work and the other for short work. The short one is equipped with a pin so that extremely short lengths can be gauged.Ē

Another mystery solved.

I wish I had this when I was tearing mine apart.
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen, thanks for the pics and research. I was beginning to think about being cheap and not buying the spinning handles- they are $70 for the pair (ouch) but I will continue toward that path and do this correctly.

i am not sure I fully buy that leveling the saw properly will take care of the alignment issues, but I am so far away from that at the moment it is scary.

Unfortunately I am up against some deadlines with my furniture and am really not focused on the saw at all. My main progress has been soaking parts in my dunk tank of lacquer thinner. I have done almost everything that fits and things are cleaning up nicely.

Here is a pic of the motor to saw coupling piece soaking in a ten gallon bucket


Hopefully some progress tomorrow.

Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

time flies when your are busy. It has been over two months since I said "hopefully some progress tomorrow"!

Well today is tomorrow as I actually have some progress to show from this weekend.

I put the base of the saw on my outdoor-mobile-work-station and went at it with an angle grinder with knotted wire wheel. I was able to strip the remaining paint off. One trick I like to use is to flip the wheel over on the spindle when it gets dull, this reverses the rotation and gets it screaming again. Here is the Tanny saw with a nice view of my tanny bumper sticker!


Also a view of the underside- kinda crudely formed, but i will never see it again.


and a close-up of the fabricated parts they used to give the feet of the base mass.


Lastly, all bondoed up


I sanded the bondo up this evening and added a bit more, but my camera was not about. No telling when I will get more progress, but at least it is moving forward again.

pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I had a few minutes tonight and I turned up some plugs for some of the random electrical holes in the base. I may eventually need them in the same location, but am not certain. Plus, I plan on having bigger holes and the plugs will make drilling them easier.


The plugs fit well and will be welded in place tomorrow (hopefully)


My bondo work is continuing as well and I should soon be done with that too.


I see the potential for paint on the base soon! But I may be overly optimistic, as there are plenty of other things to do as well.

Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday I welded the plugs in place and today snuck in a few moments to grind and bondo them. I also welded a number of other holes. I should be starting with a clean slate for the re-wiring.

Weld


Grind


Do


I also stopped by Napa and bought some glazing compound. I really like this stuff after the bondo to get all of those little nicks and tough areas. It is not as durable as the bondo, but is easy to apply and sand.

Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the aforementioned glazing compound from Napa


As you can see, it applies very smoothly- it is the gray stuff in the fillet.


I wanted to be able to work on the feet on the saw. I figured the best way was to suspend it from the forks of my crown lift, here is what i rigged up.


It worked well and I have great access to the feet.


The feet were not the best in terms of how they lined up- just sloppy fab work. I took my angle grinder to them and cut back some of the metal. I don't expect them to be perfect, just a tad better.


All slopped up with some more bondo.


It will truly be a miracle if I ever get this saw back together.

Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I know everyone including me is sick of watching me bondo the base. Well, that is just about done, and I promise no more base pictures until I have some paint on it.

Meanwhile back at the ranch..... I decided it was time to get some paint on some other components. Of course, I didn't know the can of worms I was opening.

Firstly I decided to venture away from my usual smoke gray that most of my machine rebuilds are finished in. I was aiming for something closer to Rustoleum charcoal gray- a paint that is substantially darker. After exhausting all of my local outlets and not finding charcoal gray except in spray bombs, I decided to try a new paint from Sherwin Williams- their own aklyd enamel. Well, I brought home their paint fan to pick the exact right color- that nice dark gray. After much debate I picked a winner, Web Gray.

Well, after applying the first coat, I have to say that it is pretty damn close to smoke gray and I am an idiot. It is still a nice color, but not quite what I was looking for. There is no going back now.

Step one was wire wheeling the massive trunnion.


Then I think I promised some paint pics earlier in this post.


Then I got carried away. Normally I am not a brusher, and I plan on spraying the base and underside of the top. But this saw is mostly internal components and I was hungry for paint and there was no stopping me.


More


Lastly, a photo of the brush I was using- an artist brush. The action was great, I definitely enjoyed this technique. The amount of time I wasted brushing surely offset all the time it would have taken me to mask off all of these pieces. Of course, the proof will be in the pudding tomorrow when I see what a monster I have created.
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something gray happened today (finally!)

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chathamworkshop



Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 72
Location: Chatham, NJ

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking real good, Pete. The finish line is in sight! Hope to see your completed masterpiece soon.

Bill
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the pleasure of seeing the saw in person. The paint job is out of sight. The bondo and glazing compound has paid off!

Looking forward to seeing the pieces go back together
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys! But, I know I still have a long way to go. Fortunately, I am in a glory period right now and I had a few moments this afternoon to capitalize on it.

I re-assembled the trunnion.


And lifted it with my crown with a strap. What a great device!


Here it is in place.


quitting time and the motor is going back together.


Also I wanted to post a link to a great Tannewitz serial number list on owwm.com http://wiki.owwm.com/Tannewitz%20Serial%20Numbers.ashx Using the list I place my saw as being built in 1962. It definitely had a moment of abuse in its life as there was a bit of rust pitting in the lower right area of the saw and on the handles and wheels. The gray paint job that the saw was wearing when I bought it was done after that rust encounter and over the original paint. I am glad I can do my part to help the saw to hopefully last another 48 years!

Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving right along.

Firstly, you need to believe me that I put the motor back together with the new bearings (ie, I forgot to take pictures). I used sealed bearings and plugged the grease ports on the saw with some nice brass plugs that I had in stock. This picture kinda shows the motor and gives you an idea of what I did next. It also shows my obsession with acorn nuts.


Once I had the motor back together it was time for some accuracy checking. I positioned a indicator with a magnetic base so I could get a good read on the face of the flange.


Here is one extreme


and the other. this makes it about .0005 out, I am very happy.


Also, I am not sure if I recall mentioning, but I fabricated a new stop for the 90ļ position. Here it is next to the original 45ļ stop.


Also happening is some handle polishing on the lathe. I had to work them pretty hard with 80 grit as they had some pitting, but that is long forgotten once you work up the grits and see the polish. Here is a pic from the 80 grit stage.


I bought new spinning handles for the handwheels. I originally ordered ones with a 3/8" press fit, but it turns out Tannewitz drilled the hole loose and peened the handles in from behind. I sent the 3/8" ones back and ordered ones with a 7/16 stub. I was happy enough to do this as the 7/16 handles are a bit longer and the ones I originally bought seemed too short. In order to fit the handles I had to enlarge the holes on the handwheels. After aligning the preexisting hole, I then drilled them to 27/64.


27/64 left me a 64th of an inch to ream away to insure a tight fit.
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't had much time to work on the saw, but I snuck in a few minutes today. I also learned that you can sometimes be a tad too precise.

I went to add the spinning handles to my handwheels, and found that reaming them was too tight a fit. I ended up drilling the holes with a regular twist drill to open them just a tad and allow the handles to fit better.

I also had much debate as to the colors of the handwheels. When the plan was to make a darker shade of gray for the saw body, I decided to go with a bold color rather than my standard black- the thought was a bright red. Well, with a more standard gray as the saw body, I went back to the old standard black (yes I am a chicken).

Lastly, I do think I finally understand the lock for the raising and lowering. At first I thought it might work by not having a keyway, so that the handle would just freewheel without the lock being tightened. I reviewed one of the exploded parts diagrams and found this not to be the case- it definitely showed a keyway. Today when I experimented with the lock, I found with it quite tightened down it was harder to raise and lower. It seems it tightens the handwheel against the spacer just behind it and makes it hard to raise. It is definitely not the best system, but that is fine, I don't think it is the kind of thing that needs to be locked down totally tight.

Here it is as it currently sits. It is a complete pleasure to raise and lower the blade and tilt as well. This badboy is damn smooth.
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