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My first Oliver
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: My first Oliver Reply with quote

Thanks to a heads up courtesy of Crzypete and a bit of luck I won an Ebay auction for an Oliver 166-CD.

The machine has the long beds, three knife cutter head, original paint (whats left of it) and 5 horse direct drive woods motor.

I picked up the machine yesterday and unloaded it today. Here are a few pictures for your amuzement.






















The machine is going to live here for a while I finish some work and get it ready to replace the 12" Crescent. I would appreciate any advice as i am not sure how much work I am going to do to it before putting it in service. As of now i am thinking of cleaning up the easy parts, scotch brighting the tables and fence, sharpening the knives and leveling the beds. The obvious omission is dealing with the paint. Perhaps I will save that for another day? I wonder if that day will ever come?
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1691
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a momentous day for your shop- You first Oliver and a 166 at that. Congratulations.

It looks like the unload went smoothly- those can be awkward machines.

Try the scotchbrite on the tables, but don't be afraid to get a bit more aggressive. I think you will find 220 sandpaper is not as coarse as you think, If the rust is really tenacious, drop down a grit, metal is different than wood. End with scotchbrite and paste wax.

As to the paint, I can tell you from experience, you will be hard pressed to pull it out of service once it is going- it is almost definitely a now or never type deal. Hopefully one day I will paint mine, it certainly deserves it as it is really my ugly ducking in my shop- even though it is one of my finest machines.

Welcome to the club.

pete
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guzziguy



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 798
Location: Western NC

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm sure you know what my vote is when it comes to painting. My machines are so covered in saw dust they could be pink as far as i can tell. besides if you give it a pristine paint job you'll be afraid to use it, god forbid you nick it! it will ruin your whole day. I guess the thing is is is a show machine or a daily user?
beat up guzzi rat bike guy.
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1691
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guzziguy wrote:
i'm sure you know what my vote is when it comes to painting. My machines are so covered in saw dust they could be pink as far as i can tell. besides if you give it a pristine paint job you'll be afraid to use it, god forbid you nick it! it will ruin your whole day. I guess the thing is is is a show machine or a daily user?
beat up guzzi rat bike guy.


Guzzi, Sounds like you need a real dust collector.

As to pristine paint jobs- I am certainly not afraid to use them, and I am inspired by their condition and find a fully cleaned and restored machine functions better.

I am recommending a high Quality brush job for nektai. I think if he wipes that machine down with thinner, gets a good brush and goes at it, it won't take that long and he will be happy with it while he uses it for the next couple of decades. I wish my 166 looked better.

Pete
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guzziguy



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 798
Location: Western NC

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blow it of and start working. if you are start cleaning up that machine I want you to wear a maid outfit while you do it. Laughing
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maid outfit?

I am afraid that I have had to stop work at some point and put my "Mechanics Outfit" on to fix machines that i did not give the new paint treatment to. I am concerned that skipping the step of removing the tables, cleaning the ways of rust and gunk may come back to haunt me. If I decide to do that then I would be a fool not to paint.
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guzziguy



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 798
Location: Western NC

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do not agree, but to each its own.

j
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not saying that I am going to paint it I am just saying that i am sure I will regret it some day.
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guzziguy



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 798
Location: Western NC

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have painted some machines and some i have left as is. What i have come to realize is that for me it makes absolutely no difference if a machine is pretty or not. What is most important is that it does what it is intended to do and do it well. When I am working on a piece I am not looking or thinking about how great the machine looks. I am focused on making the piece. When i walk into my shop first thing in the morning, what makes me feel good is a clean and organized space. this makes working easier and more pleasurable not a freshly painted machine.

j[/i]
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swparish



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Ft. Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nico,

Got here late so I donít know if this is relevant, butÖ

First off, congrats on the new acquisition.

Second, Iím in total agreement with Guzzi. If I thought painting my machines would make my shop clean and organized, Iíd do it in a heartbeat. With that being said, I definitely believe in tearing a machine down and making sure all the working parts are up to snuff. I will tell you that this can become a slippery slope as evidenced by my own experience with my 166. I donít regret lapping all the machined parts, and I know everything works the way itís supposed to, but I probably went over board just a tad.

In reference to this post: http://machinejunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=461 . I have another suggestion in getting the beds adjusted. After I used the laser, I purchased a Beall Tilt Box (for setting the blade angle on my table saw), and used it to double check my beds. I put the Tilt Box on the outfeed next to the cutterhead and zeroed it. Next I moved to various points on the beds, maintaining the same axis to see if they were zero. Then I did the same procedure in the other axis. Anyway, it was zero everywhere, so Iím pretty confident the beds are adjusted correctly. I think my logic in this is right, but if anyone has comments let me know. I love the Tilt Box. It seems to be extremely accurate and sensitive, and I have used it to set up other machines.

Good luck.
Stephen
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all for their input. It is no longer pertinent as I have already started slipping down that damn slope.

The original paint started coming off in sheets while I was blowing the machine off after a bit of paint thinner was used to de oil the machine.

No way i can paint this thing without removing the beds to clean the ways, de rust the hand wheels and the like.

Now i am concerned that i will need to prime before i paint so you know what's next.

I cant prime without filling some of the flaws in the casting first

Slip
slip
down the slope i go.

N
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guzziguy



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 798
Location: Western NC

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prime? filling? I'm no longer leaving anymore comments.

adios!
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is still hope. The machine is just sitting there until after Washington.

Reason may still prevail!
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well its after Washington and I have some time to waste on projects like the Oliver so I jumped back in today.

WARNING! Guzziguy may want to avert his eyes as this does involve paint and a bit of prep work.

I started the day by pulling the tables and hitting the body with my 1/4 sheet sander.





Tonight I painted the body with a first coat that will act as a primer. I am afraid that i dont have enough of my custom color for two complete coats so I felt the first coat with a similar color was necessary.

I used Arthur's method of back rolling with a small foam roller. This is a great technique and is going to improve the quality of this quick paint job.

Today two unforseen developments surfaced.

First the electrics on this machine are a mess. It had been in a school with a second brake (electronic) that the previous owner had hacked off. He left the old leeds in the box and the result is more tangled than my hair. The wires are confusing but not the problem. The coil seems very loose (wire labeled B connects to it). I did not see the machine run so I am concerned that it is faulty.




The real disappointment of the day are the knives. They are in great condition but they are not the same height. No two are the same and there is about an 1/8" difference from the largest to the smallest. Thanks to Mr. D I am lousy with 18" knives that look like a suitable replacement if you all think it is wise to cut them down?
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1691
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love it. Keep going on that painting. It takes a little time now, but you will be happy you did it for such a long time, If I had painted my 166 when I got it, I sure wouldn't miss that week of my life now.

I think you can yank those brake wires out without too much of a problem, but can't really decipher what is going on from your pic. I ended up swapping a newer starter onto my 166 and haven't looked back.

As to the knives, if the measurements are positive, you can trim them down. I would probably send them out to do this, as technically they should be balanced after they are cut. Perhaps a call to schmigt on monday morning would clue you in as to whether it could be done in house.

Pete
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will have to talk to Schmidts tomorrow. Perhaps they could hack one set down to 16" and grind the other set so that they are all the same height. That would be the best as it might actually encourage me to swap blades when they are dull vs blunt.

Here is the progress report.

The paint that i am using seems to take forever to dry. With luck I may be able to top coat it tomorrow night.


You can see the ghosting of the layers below. I am glad that I did not go straight to top coat.


I did go straight to top coat on the other smaller parts.







Tomorrow I will wire wheel the hardware and wait for paint to dry
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1691
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great! I can;t wait to see it with the final color and all back together. What is the gloss of the paint you ended up with?

Pete
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am using Impervo enamel.

The lighter color that i am using as a primer is a low luster paint. Unfortunately the color I chose for the final color requires a base that can handle 4 colors. The low luster base can only handle 3.

This all means the top coat is high gloss, possibly even shiner than Rust o leum
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swparish



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Ft. Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nico, things are looking good. A couple of questions.

Is the lever on the end of the head the brake? And if it is, is it mechanical or electronic? You mentioned the electronic brake was removed. I always thought electronic brakes worked by reversing polarity of the windings, or something like that. The one in the picture looks like a disk brake. The reason I ask is, mine doesnít have a brake and it takes forever to wind down.

Whatís the rule of thumb about the minimum width of knives? Mine are even with the bottom of the locking bar/chip breaker. Do I still have some sharpenings left? Can I go all the way up to just below the set screw?
What is back rolling? Give me a link or explain.

Great picts. But to be honest this thread is lacking some drama.

Stephen
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen-

Yes the lever is for a physical brake that also acts as a kill switch, just like the Oliver at RIT. This machine also had an electric brake when it was in the school. Considering the fact that it was missing a spring and a little black knob I suspect that they may have disabled the physical brake. Needless to say I will restore it to working condition.

I am not sure about the knives but plan on doing research so I will try to get you an answer.

Back rolling, as I understood it, is the act of smoothing out brushstrokes with a foam roller. The roller appears to give better results before it gets loaded with paint. i am planning on rolling off the excess when it comes time to do the actual top coat.

I hope this is a drama free thread. Time will tell!

N
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