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creating franken-hammond- The Inch Fingerscale
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: creating franken-hammond- The Inch Fingerscale Reply with quote

I finally was able to open the Bob Vauhgn pdf on replacing the arbor in a hammond to use a slightly larger blade, and it got me thinking. The fine wood article wanted to modify the saws as well. My thought has been that they were pretty close to perfect, and My feeling was that the FWW articles modification took them further away from it rather than closer. Bob's article is more sane with a better ideas toward improvements.

Here are some ideas toward a better franken-hammond

My first idea is to create a fingerscale that indexes in inches instead of pica. I am talking more than just replacing the ruler, but actually putting a new piece of leadscrew in there. The difficulty here is creating the new bronze nut in the finger.

The fingerscale on my spare saw is of the extended version (40 pica longer than regular) But it would still be nice to have an extension that went out 4' or so with its own finger.

Perhaps a 2hp motor, just for the Tim Allen factor.


Last edited by crzypete on Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crzypete you are on to something. I too have desire to modify one of my Hammonds. I have not thought about a blade mod but I do like the idea of modifying the fence. The things I would like are

Some sort of integral support so that i do not get any tear out as I make a cut. I had toyed with the idea of a tall support that is indexed and screwed in place.

I would also benefit from a better system to cut angles.

You will have to sell me on the blade mod as i am a skeptic
nico
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Mike Henry



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Along with the 4-foot extension could you design a way to increase the table feed range to 2 feet or more Very Happy

That request is only partially in jest - the Hammond is my only decent table saw and it sure would be nice to use it to cut up 2' x 4' stock.

I really like the idea of an decimal-inch reading finger scale. Maybe a rotary encoder on the end would make for an interim solution, though dealing with backlash could be tricky.

FWIW, I've got a DC motor on mine that is rated something over 1 HP - maybe 1-1/2 HP.

Mike
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, for cutting 2' wide stock you can do the ultra rookie place your stock on the table with the blade beneath the table and use the hand crank to raise the saw blade up through it. I have done this on occasion and have had good success. Rookie but effective.

There are 6 pica to the inch, so although it is not convenient, it is not impossible to use the current scale and index to measure. (On edit, There are not actually 6 pica to an inch- kinda close but no cigar making the current leadscrew useless)

My saws have 1hp motors currently.

Nico, I own the ultra rare any angle miter attachment, and find it less than adequate, any angle does not seem to include the first 20.

My solution to the angles would be a gage that sits in front of the current fence. This gives you angle ability in only one direction, which isn't perfect, but aint too shabby.

For your situation, perhaps a dedicated saw just for angles.

Pete


Last edited by crzypete on Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Henry



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete,

Quote:
you can do the ultra rookie place your stock on the table with the blade beneath the table


That would work fine for my usual need, which is to roughly cut up 2'x4' stock into pieces small enough for accurate cuts on smaller pieces. Is there anything to watch out for when doing this on stock like plastic or plywood, generally 1/2" thick or thinner? I'm thinking of kick back or some other phenomena - novice WW here.

Mike
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would keep the table all the way back with the workpiece securely against the fence. then hold it down with enough force so that the blade does not lift the work. And of course, do not raise the blade into your hand- very important.

Pete
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Mike Henry



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
do not raise the blade into your hand- very important


That part I've already figured out - running an end mill across a fingertip a few months back has re-inforced that lesson Embarassed

Mike
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm kinda getting into the fingerscale project. MSC and Mcmaster both sell left-handed 3/4-8 precision acme rod. The rod is farily cheap- $40 for a 3' from mcmaster, $50 for a 6' from MSC.

The nut becomes the real dilemma, a nut that fits that is over $50 from mcmaster, MSC doesn't even seem to have that size. Even with the purchase of the nut, turning it into the little bronze lever inside in finger is no cake walk.

Perhaps the best way is to either single point thread it, or buy the correct sized acme tap. I've also been considering getting a quote for 10 from the cnc machinist that I have had make parts for my furniture. Any interest?

Pete
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am interested but we have to solve the nut dilemma.

Nico
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have progress. Another buyer nearly maxed out my bid, but I held on in the end.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7605560753

New tap from MSC is $120, so it is still a savings.

Pete
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Mike Henry



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete,

I was just wondering about adding a DRO scale to the finger/fence on a Hammond. Some pretty cheap ones have come onto the market in the last couple of years and it might be simpler to do that than to convert over the feed screw and finger nut to decimal pitch. Finding room for the head and cale might be a problem and cutting dust could also be an issue.

Any thoughts on that idea?

Mike
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike I have to admit, that kind of thinking that scares me a bit. I mean I like to go over the top and all, but that might be the kinda thinking that calls out for the padded wagon.

I do love my DRO on my mill, but I don't think the materials I cut on the hammond are really that accurate. Seems like it would be a pain to zero, and the cords and scales might be a tad cumbersome. Also dust in my environment would be a major issue.

If you do go down this road, I would definitely like to see pics, and I will make sure I save the seat next to me in the padded wagon. :shock

Pete
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Mike Henry



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, maybe it is a bit extreme. So far I've been getting by with a tape measure to size my cuts with maybe a click or two on the leadscrew detent to fine tune.

I'm not sure that the cable would be anywhere near as much of a problem as dust. I've got an extra Shooting Star DRO that I was going to mount on my metalworking lathe that is a possible candidate but it uses a rack and rotary encoder which would probably make it a very poor system for this application. Clearance would probably be an issue too. The only advantage is that the racks and mounting hardware are cheap so it would mostly cost only time to find out. That's in short supply here, though.

Mike
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Today I took apart the finger scale and lead screw on my designated franken-hammond. The lead screw should be a cinch, very basic turning here. The bronze adapter nut is also apart, and with the help of the tap I bought on eBay, and a good sized chunk of bronze I think I can make something.

My only debate is whether to us a chunk of what I believe to be brass that is already on hand, or spend the $30 at mcmaster for a proper bearing bronze bar.

Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok this project has been on the back burner way too long, I was back at it this afternoon.

I prepared my bronze and put it into the metal lathe to tap it. I am not man enough to power tap it, but this seemed like the easiest way to align the monster tandem tap. As a funny sidebar when I started tapping this it was not biting whatsoever, took me a few minutes to remember that it is a left hand tap Embarassed once I got passed that it wasn't too bad.


here is the tapped block


After that all that was left was to bandsaw it to shape. I am not sure I have the exact dimensions down in terms of the relationship of the geometry of all the elements, this one might turn into a failure, but I also just might make it work. here it is bandsawn and milled to rough shape.


and inserted into place


I have not yet yelled "it's alive!"

Pete aka Dr Hammondstein
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crzy-

It looks like you have taken one BIG leap forward with this freakish project!! When do you think you will flip the switch and have the Franken Hammond up and running?
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Jeff



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Winooski, VT

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Very Nice! Reply with quote

Very nice work indeed. I can't wait to see the finished product.
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind words. Functionality becomes a reality when I get to turn the leadscrew for the hammond- I can't trial fit until I have the screw in place. We shall see how the schedule shapes up.

I, of course will keep the forum posted.

Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went back in on this project over the last day or two. I turned my piece of acme rod to fit the hammond. That went really well, But the hammond bronze nut became scrap last night I seem to have messed up slightly in the relationship of the acme thread hole to the pivot point. I am hoping my second attempt will yield success.

Pics soon. I am excited by how the bronze cleans up and how easy it is to mill. I am definitely happy with the progress so far, so much so that I have added more rules to my mcmaster-carr order sheet and am very tempted to buy more leadscrew as well, I guess I should solve the nut first.

Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a new nut today, complete success, pics in the morning, I am very excited.

Pete
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