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Blade choice for new Tannewitz saw

 
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Blade choice for new Tannewitz saw Reply with quote

I recently bought a Tannewitz XJ 16" table saw on IRS auctions (on edit, it turns out it is a model U). I will be uploading complete pics when I finally retrieve the saw (it is currently at a halfway house in Massachusetts, thanks Mr D!)

In the meantime, I have been thinking about blade choices and have come to the following Forrest debate

30 tooth or 40 tooth?
http://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker_2.htm

I use the 30 tooth blades for my 10" saws but am thinking maybe the 40 teeth spread over the 16" blade would be better. This will be my dedicated rip saw cutting hardwoods 2" and thicker.

any thoughts?

Pete


Last edited by crzypete on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mr douglas t



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Westhampton, MA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will the 40t blade give a better finish? I would go with the 30t blade. The saw is a RIP saw. No plywood, no cross cut end grain. Is there a special if you order more than one? If so, let me know because I want to order another 16" blade also.
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, after a call to Forrest and a trip to Mr D's I have brand new 30 tooth rip blade. I have to say, it is a tad aggressive. Especially since I have not consistently used a saw this big since 1996.

I got advice from the sales guy at Forrest, but I think he really was reciting a company line rather than understanding we were talking about a 16" blade rather than a ten. Oh well, perhaps I'll buy a 40 tooth when it comes time to sharpen this one so I can have a choice.

these 16"' blades really do make the 10" ones look small.

The discount on the second blade was marginal- an extra 4%, but they waive the $18 of shipping that we would have both had to pay, so I ordered two. I'll try to ship yours over tomorrow.

It also turns out that my saw is a model U- which my research shows is simply a tad smaller all around than an XJ. It should suit me fine and means I am Stephen's twin. Unfortunately it needs bearings so I am going to be following Stephen's footsteps more than I wish... http://machinejunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=476

Pics and all that good stuff soon

Pete
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nektai



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be a tall challenge to match the exploits of Stephen...I look forward to following along!
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swparish



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Ft. Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the new saw. You can't beat the sound. And remember, it won't stop… for anything. I called Tanniwitz when I first got the saw, to see if they’d send me a manual. The guy I spoke with said they wouldn’t and they don’t make that saw any more or provide any support for it because of the liability issue. I remember Stephen Proctor said he could stop a 10" belt drive by pinching the blade with his thumbs. I never actually saw him do it, and I don't remember him saying he could do it on a Tanny.
The rip blade I have is the one that came with the saw when I bought it. It’s a 40 and the last time I had it sharpened the guy said that it had an extreme angle on it. I’ll do some investigating to see if I can figure the brand and the angles.
I fully expect your report on the bearing change to be as thrilling and suspenseful as mine, if not more so. Remember to develop the plot slowly, flesh out the characters, and build to a dramatic climax. That’ll keep the readers coming back.
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen, welcome back! I am definitely glad too have you on the team.

I know I can't compete with you on the story telling and I hope not to compete with you on the epic-ness of the journey. I do have to report that in my five minute attempt this afternoon, that stub arbor is definitely on very tightly. But this is all a story for another thread....

Also, I don't know if you ever obtained a manual for your saw, but you can download one here http://www.owwm.com/mfgIndex/pubdetail.aspx?id=2349

So, you run a 40 tooth blade with you saw? Like it? How does it handle ripping thicker solid wood? any burning, bogging, issues?

Here is my brand new 30 tooth forrest on the saw, kinda scary isn't it?


I have other issues at the moment- more pressing. We had a large willow tree fall on our bigger barn this morning- no storms or wind, just decided it was time. Too bad, we had calling a tree service on the list of things to do- specifically to cut that tree before it came through our barn. Fortunately the barn is still standing, hope to keep it that way, but the tree is not a welcome addition.



Pete
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I look at that blade on the saw, I realize it doesn't look that scary it is kinda proportionate to the 10" blade and doesn't actually look any different that the 10". I'll have to take a shot with the 10" blade and the 16" blade tomorrow.

Stephen, i thought Proctor's trick was actually slowing a turned off saw, not sure though as I didn't get the demo either. I'll have to ask next time I run into him.

So, here are some saw pics

an overview shot, it has the extra long biesmeyer fence and one miter gage. The tannewitz ground pattern is pretty strong on the top and it raises really smoothly in its not yet cleaned up state. The red box on the floor on the right side is a electronic brake which I bought off of ebay last week. I figured the saw would take forever to stop and didn't like that thought. The sheet metal cover to the left is missing, good thing I have some metal working machines!


A view of the top. You can really dig the pattern here. As I understand it, it was made with a grinder with a specially dressed wheel that was cocked off center. After many years of staring at the same pattern on my bandsaw I am convinced that the pattern was ground with the table at a 45º angle. The oft heard notion that it is hand-scraping is not true. It is great that the throat plate was ground in place and the marks carry right over to it- you can hardly see it.


Close up of the miter gage
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swparish



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Ft. Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was lucky in that mine came with both miter gauges that had matching numbers to the saw. And the right miter gauge slot has the insert that continues the inches engraved across the table. It also came with a rip fence and the pins that fit into the table. But my throat plate was ruined. It looked like someone left it outside for years then found it and decided to use it for a pry bar. I've always thought of having another one made with a dovetail slot machined in it so I could put a sacrificial piece of wood in for Zero clearance. What I have now is basically just that in Baltic ply, but it would be nicer to have a metal one that had some adjustment. I'm also missing the side cover so I made one out of 1/4 melamine just to keep the dust from flying all over the shop. I remember the one at school had a handle on it that the wrench fit nicely into.


I noticed yours has the height adjustment locking knob. I couldn't remember what the one from school looked like and couldn’t figure out how it actually worked, so I just made something out of plastic conduit and a bolt to hold the hand crank on. The blade tilt lock on mine is this little thumb screw. I don't know if this is original. It seems way out of scale for the rest of the saw, but it works. Really, with both of these adjustments I've never had any problem with them moving during operation. I imagine the shear mass of the mechanism keeps things pretty well in place.


Since I'm cheap, I made my own biesmeyer. It was pretty simple. Just a couple of pieces of square tube and a couple of pieces of angle. I made it long enough so I could crosscut a 4 x 8. Probably the hardest part was making the adjustment mechanism. Biesmeyer uses an actual cam in their locking mechanism, but I just used a piece of round stock with an off center hole. It took a little finesse to get it to hold in place and not unlock from the vibration. The green paint is what I had. The extension table I made is an L shape to accommodate for the extension that comes with the saw but doesn’t go the entire depth. I originally had legs on the extension, but they got kicked a lot and I eventually decided that with the angle across the front for the fence and a 2x2 angle along the back I didn't need them.


As for the performance of the saw blade. It works. Does it work better than a 30? I don't know. I'd have to have them side by side for a comparison. That's what you're for.Wink It is great for ripping. I think the most I've put through it is 8/4 maple with no problem. You'll find out that this saw NEVER bogs. You could probably put your blade on backwards and it still wouldn't bog. But you might get whatever you're cutting back in you face. Sometimes I'll get some burn, but I've always attributed that to other factors. I mean if your saw is running true, what you pushing is going straight and your blade is sharp, why would one blade burn and another not? I imagine this could be a whole other thread concerning feed rate, fence adjustment, blade true to miter slots, sharp saw, pitch build up, wood movement, etc., etc. Not to mention all the different configurations of tooth grind.

Your blade looks like mine, and it IS scary. Before I set up my shop, and the saw was in storage, I would show people the rip blade. They would say "Oh my gosh, what kinda monster saw is this."

Proctor never gave me the demo either but with enough beer I imagine anything seems possible, as my multiple scars from a misspent youth attest to.

Waiting for the report.

Stephen
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crzypete



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1689
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my saw is officially ripped open and de-bearinged http://machinejunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4852#4852 Unfortunately for everyone but me, not the story of woe that Stephen encountered. I started a separate thread to walk through the rebuild.

Stephen, my locking knobs are not both original. The saw came with the one on the raising mechanism, but the tilting one was a 3/8"- 16 bolt that someone had added. Mr Douglas just happened to have a very similar knob to the raising locker, and I had turned the shaft to 3/8-16 and already installed it when the above photos were taken. Seriously, I do not know how you guys restore machinery without metal working equipment!

If I come by enough material for two doors, I'll make you a steel one. I might need a spec on the original wrench if you want the handle to fit into it- my wrench is a standard chromed open end job

Nice looking biesmeyer. a very impressive build. How did you make the pointer for the ruler?

i concur about the niceness of zero clearance throat plate. I have no production plans at the moment. It is definitely going to be hard for me to put aside that pattern-matched steel plate that is currently in there!

I will have no more blade reports for a while. but can say the prognosis for my barn is much better- A tree crew came and removed the offending willow this morning.

Pete
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diamond saw dave



Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 45
Location: Saratoga Springs NY

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The saw looks better than it did when I came by to pick up the 3 foot bar. I did look in through the window to see it sitting by the door. With the lights off. The grind on the table top is extremely nice. I would have to add it to the list of tool drawing but right now there are 3 that need to be started and are in line ahead of it.

Now that you have the blades from forrest and the bearings are on the way. What are your plan for a fence system. Or did I not catch that part earlier in the post. As for our conversation yesterday. It might be nice to not only do the rebadge but to really do a pretty full tear down and rebuild based on the fact that the grind on the table top is so complete and intact.

I am also still leaning toward a pearlescent gray paint job. But then again. I am the crazy artist and you are the practical builder. Hope you've moved to sanding from scraping. Ill catch you later. I'm back to finish building the cabinets for the Apt. Finished the grout yesterday and rewired all the electrical...Expect an email later..

Dave- out
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dadude



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Georgetown Station, New York

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crzy,

nice score my friend, a couple things come to mind- you better bolt it to the floor (looks like it could tip) and clean up the table (has a repeat pattern all over?) Laughing Tree must have fallen over "gently" Your bench looks great at the Cragsmoor Library

best,
dadude
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